Reimagining Justice: Colonel Martin’s Vision for a Modern, Tech-Enabled Correctional Future

Brian Lee: Hello everybody and welcome to the 360 Justice Podcast.

I’m your host Brian Lee. We’re really looking forward to speaking with today’s guest, Colonel James Martin. A 22 year veteran of the Marion County Sheriff’s Office. In August of 2003, Martin was hired as a corrections officer for the MCSO, and then in 2005, sworn in as a deputy sheriff. In January 2018, Sheriff Kerry Forestal promoted Martin to the rank of Colonel, making him third in command of the entire Marion County Sheriff’s Office.

In this role, he oversees the jail, judicial enforcement, and administrative divisions. Colonel Martin has served on a variety of city and council boards and panels that have been instrumental for city and county government. In 2015, Sheriff Layton charged Colonel Martin with the overseeing of the MCSO interest in the design and construction of the Community Justice Campus, a [00:01:00] $575 million project. This project included a new courthouse, Sheriff’s Administration building and a 3000 bed jail. Colonel Martin continued this work until the project was completed in 2022 and is still actively engaged with the day-to-day operations of the CJC.

Colonel Martin led the effort with implementing new cutting edge technology and streamlining processes across the entire CJC campus. Colonel Martin, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate you coming on the show with us.

Col. Martin: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Brian Lee: Absolutely. So we’ll just jump into your background.

We heard your bio, can you give us a background and share with us what led you to the Marion County Sheriff’s Office and kind of a brief overview of your last 22 years getting to this point.

Col. Martin: Yeah. I’d always had a interest in law enforcement and the field I was in before I joined Marion County Sheriff’s Office.

Basically we were building any kind of equipment for any kind of assembly line. So it was pretty interesting [00:02:00] work. That industry went through some difficult times. The company we were working with went through some difficulties and I was just tired of the instability there.

And I’d always had a, an interest in law enforcement, so I thought I would go to a place where money’s never an issue and politics are never issue. Ha I had some things to learn when it comes to both of those, but but yeah, that’s what brought me to the sheriff’s office.

I hired in a, as a corrections officer I spent a lot of time in the jail. I ran our tactical teams for a while. I ended up coming through the ranks, all the ranks, sergeant, lieutenant, captain, major, I’ve been all of it. I was known for taking over sections and fixing it or whipping it into shape, if you will.

But in 2015 I was promoted to the jail commander at the time. So that’s really when we began our work.

The old jail was built in the 1960s, had an edition that was put on in the mid eighties. Very old, very out of shape. All of our processes were either on paper, ran by email, it was just not a real [00:03:00] official way to run a jail, and the jail itself was falling apart. So in 2015, that’s when I started going to my first meetings when we had the first concept of the first jail that we were going to build, that project fell through. Then a few years later it revived itself.

And then that’s where I stepped back in. Some of that design work, we were able to salvage from the first attempt to build the jail. So that saved a little bit of time. All the architects we were working with were great. If I had to say there was a starting point for the new jail, it was 2015 and beyond, and we’d already started re addressing our processes internally, digitizing what we could, getting rid of paper really all that five, six years worth of work what was put in on the infrastructure of just how we wanted to do business.

But, it took a lot of work. That divestment from 2015 and 2022 was huge.

Brian Lee: Got it. Okay. Interesting story. That’s a such a common occurrence of [00:04:00] what we hear with a lot of our own projects internally. How they get started, they stall, they stop again. I think a lot of people are up against that.

Now recently I had the opportunity to listen to you speak at the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce there at your hometown in Indianapolis. And that’s where you and I got to speak briefly and I thought I had recognized you after I saw you talk, and I think we discussed that we had both spent some time at the large jail network at the National Institute of Corrections several times.

That was really great reconnecting there. After that I really keyed in on some of the things that you talked about. So this was a Chamber of Commerce event where sister cities projects, so to speak, where another jurisdiction was coming in to learn about what you all had been through to assist them to navigate in their future endeavors.

So, I learned there that you were closely involved, as you briefly got into, on a new community justice campus. What you guys call CJC, and I understand that opened in [00:05:00] 2022. So were you selected for that project just by proxy because of your position? Were you selected because of any special qualifications, interest, or how did that whole thing come to fruition?

Col. Martin: I had a good reputation of being able to put together the right team, put together processes and executing certain things that happen. I guess how did I do it? I, I can’t remember if I actually just went in and asked for it and was handed it or was asked to do it. But I think my personality and reputation at the time was, if there’s gonna be someone that we’re gonna trust to do it, I got handed that tool. I also understood that I accepted anything that went wrong with the facility.

So, if there’s a door that, that was put in and it was like, who put a door here? Colonel Martin. I always get blamed for all the, all the bad stuff. But sometimes some of the great stuff that we put together falls in the shadow and is like, man, wish we, really wish that door was over two feet.

But as a jail commander, one of the things I had to realize is it’s just not running a jail. So when you’re talking about [00:06:00] technology and you’re talking about how to get rid of paper, you not only have to be a jail commander, but all of a sudden you’re a plumber and you have to worry about plumbing in the building, and all of a sudden you’re having to worry about computer programming and interfaces.

Then you have to become a professional on architecture. And then the number one thing, where we had a lot of success in, you have to be a salesman. You have to go out, not only sell the vision to the people that are working for you, but the people that are paying for it. So you learn a lot along the way.

It definitely took, I think, five years off my life. I’ll probably not live as long because I, I, was involved in this project, but we put together a team of people that worked night and day to, to get it done.

Brian Lee: Yeah, that’s huge. It’s interesting, it’s so common in these projects because they take so long, especially when they stall and there’s questions of funding and whatnot.

Oftentimes people who are in charge of the project in the beginning are no longer there at the end.

Col. Martin: Yeah.

Brian Lee: Because of the career. Was that part of the decision making process as well? Did you know ahead of time that [00:07:00] you would see that project all the way through and come out on the other end of it?

Col. Martin: I didn’t, right. So I knew current day what the goals and objectives were. It’s funny you say that because me and one other person are the only two people within the city county government organization that was actually there from start to finish. Everybody else either moved on, came in, came out. There’s a lot of things that were lost of how decisions were made, or how that was gonna be funded or whatever questions come up. Gets lost a little bit because so many people moved in, moved out.

Brian Lee: Yeah. And it’s that in my experience, it’s so important to have that consistency through the project because you get wrapped into decisions and a couple years down the line people start to question why was this decision made? How did we get here? And it’s nice to have that continuous involvement of a person through that process to be able to answer those questions ’cause it becomes a lot. One of the other things I queued in that you talked about was building the team to get through that [00:08:00] process. And something we emphasize on heavily here at CGL is transition activation, that transition team and getting prepared for that process.

How did you learn how to approach that? Because most of the time, building a new jail facility. It is only done once in a person’s career, and it’s not usually something that somebody’s done before in your position. So who did you look to and how did you know how to build the team and how did you figure out that process to get you through transition?

Col. Martin: You have to be careful. You have to pick the right people, the right, right vision. You have to, first and foremost what we learned early on is you can’t drag someone along that doesn’t wanna move off of this is how we’ve always done things. So some of the, even the architects and some of the designers that we were working with and even the building rep was, alright, how do you currently do things now? And the idea that’s how we want the new jail set up, right? So, no here’s [00:09:00] how currently we do it. Here’s all the problems with it and here’s what we’d like to do to streamline it. But we looked at it as, we weren’t stuck in that. This is how we do it. This is how we log stuff. This is how we feed. We’re gonna print out paper rosters and we’re gonna go up to all the cell blocks and check everybody off one by one. No. But when I was promoted in 2015 by Sheriff Leighton to take over the jail there, there were very big problems in the jail that I was also charged to, to solve and get rid of.

We had a huge suicide problem in our jail, basically, from the onset of the opioid epidemic. We were in, in a class action lawsuit for over detentions at the time. Not that we were over detaining people, but we had changed over our JMS at the time and the people that were in charge of that JMS implementation highly customize the, that application to the way they were doing business before, instead of looking at it like, all right how does your [00:10:00] application solve this problem? I don’t like the picture on the right side. Take it to the left. Caused a lot of problems with that software and it delayed some releases and we got sued for it.

So we’re under a class action lawsuit for over detention. So we had to fix that. The court ultimately gave us a ruling of the 12 hour mark. So anybody that was detained over 12 hours that’s who was allowed in the lawsuit. So we took that as, from the time that we were notified of the court, we had 12 hours to get you out.

And in that environment, the way the information was flowing was very difficult because the judge at that time at the courtroom could make a release decision at eight in the morning, that court line deputy wouldn’t get back over with a stack of papers until five or six. So we’re already, we’re already eight, 10 hours the end of that time where we gotta do it.

So with all of those processes and all of that we learned while we were changing inmate records, the people that get all these decisions maintain all the records. [00:11:00] It was all paper. It was all paper packets by alphabet for all of the inmates. We went in and from 2015, 2017, we had done a lot of work to, digitize all of this information. So when a judge makes a decision, how can I capture that digitally? How can I get notified? Built dashboards. And in 2017, we went paperless in inmate records. So no more paper files. Everything’s coming to us digitally. All the information exchanges are digitally, not by email or word of mouth or handwritten documentation.

What we learned real quick when we were really getting ready to remove the printers out of inmate records, there were the staff there to include some ranking staff. We had a major in there that had their boots in the sand so hard that we had to hire we couldn’t afford to lose those people doing that work, but they were not gonna make that change.

They wanted to keep the way they were doing things for the last 20 years. [00:12:00] We had to hire a whole new staff, almost secretly train them at the training academy. A whole different building on how we were gonna do business moving forward, get ’em trained up, get ’em experienced. We did all the testing with the digital infrastructure that we had set up, all the new dashboards that we had displayed.

And then when we moved them over, our Major, she couldn’t handle it, she retired. Most of that staff quit. And, you had to let ’em go. They were, unfortunately, just weren’t gonna go with the time. So we already had experience going in with that of, all right, we cannot go into this new jail with, here’s how our intake is running now.

Here’s how our jail is running now, and this is the way we’re gonna do business. It was gonna be set up for efficiency. It was meant to improve the working environment for our staff. Improve the quality of life for all of our inmates and really to unburdened staff to the point where if it took them to physically log something whether [00:13:00] it be clock rounds, feeding, delivering mail, any, anything that they’re doing.

We didn’t have enough staff. We weren’t logging all of that anyway. How can we make it happen automatically? Just by them entering the area, just by them doing the activity how can we capture it to where they’re not having to go to individual workstation and get it done.

So that, that was the topic of every discussion that we had of how can we move the information from one piece to another? And we went as far to challenge our staff of, if you have to go print a piece of paper from a printer, how long does it take you to walk from your desk to that printer?

How much time are we wasting here going to get that piece of paper? And why do you need that piece of paper? Why do you need it? Why are you printing it and can I get rid of it? And that’s the way we challenged everything moving forward.

Brian Lee: It’s just an undertaking to hear you explain it.

I have so many questions and it’s common to a lot of the projects we face, [00:14:00] and aside from just the undertaking of new technology and processes, that staffing part seem like the really difficult part, right? That you have people that are career employees, loyal employees, and that, that’s the difficult part.

Sometimes not everybody can come along. In these projects, like you said, that you have to make this change and I think that makes it difficult. I’m curious, did you all go through your team that helped to transition or implementing any of these technologies? Did you go through any of the official training that’s put together by the NIC, like the pony or the pony training or anything like that?

Or did you all just figure it out as you went?

Col. Martin: Yeah, we uh, wouldn’t say figure it out as we went. We had a good plan going in, obviously if we were meeting with vendors or current contractors. And it was a struggle for our current contractors, our current vendors to come along and get on the right path ’cause they had to do some improvements to their own platforms if they were gonna follow us over to the [00:15:00] CJC. In 2019 we held a technology summit with all of our current vendors and everybody that was printing paper and doing things were gonna have to modernize or they weren’t gonna be able to come with us.

It’s, for the most part they did.

Brian Lee: That’s an interesting, I never heard of that. A technology summit, what did that consist of? Did everybody come sit in a room together? You talked about the systems? How did that work?

Col. Martin: Yeah, we, uh, we all we’re all sitting in the same room. We all called a meeting.I led it, it was with all of our big vendors, our food commissary, medical telephone all of those vendors. And they were all up actually for, so we’re, it probably really need to go out for an RFP, but we realized we’re not gonna have the time to run all of these huge contracts through an RFP and build a jail at the same time.

So we extended to them that they would have the opportunity to come to the new place with us. Here’s what we expected. We wanted real time service. We wanted real time data. Our commissary vendor was used to handing out paper [00:16:00] receipts to inmates like it’s 2019. They can’t sign a pad.

They’re going, and it needs to be real time. I had a full-time employee, a deputy that, that was assigned to the jail. That’s all she did was reissue refunds back to inmates because they ran out of Snickers. It’s 2019. That should not need a human to do that. So it was just all of those bits and pieces of getting with the vendors and I was pretty hard on the vendors.

We had to get to a point to say, you’re not coming unless you do it. And then if you don’t do it, do you really want me to have to kick you out of the day? This jail opens, it’s gonna be the newest, it’s gonna be the most high tech, at least for the first five minutes. Do you want to be the person to get kicked out of Indianapolis?

Yeah. And these are decently big name companies that you’re gonna have to increase your platform.

Brian Lee: Interesting. So a while ago you spoke about the technology and I remember it from the discussion that you gave [00:17:00] in Indianapolis a few months ago, and that was the technology related to not having to log people in when they’re moving. And I think you talked about tracking technology. Could you get into that technology a little bit and explain to us what that is and how that was helpful for your current operation?

Col. Martin: Again, with it requiring staff to, to log information, right? Any event had to be manually logged for every inmate, whether you’re gonna feed ’em, whether you’re going to take ’em to court whether you’re gonna provide programming, give them mail. Any of those activities requires a human person to sit down to a computer, go to that inmate’s booking screen, log that event so they can capture what happened or prove that they fed ’em that day or gave them mail. We decided to go with a vendor that could solve all that problem for us. And it was good timing with it because building a new jail, we could incorporate that infrastructure in a lot [00:18:00] easier than you could with an existing jail. So currently we can track inmates movement all the way through our building, all the way through the secured hallways, all the way over to the courthouse, all the way to the courtroom.

What that does for us, that inmate is assigned a particular housing unit. He’s in that zone. If he somehow ends up in the wrong housing unit or wrong part of the building alarms start going off. He is outta his zone.

Brian Lee: And that’s strictly a passive system that doesn’t require coding in barcode systems or anything like that. It’s just a passive system.

Col. Martin: Nope. Yeah, we have these wipes everywhere all throughout the building. We can capture your movement where, wherever you’re at, and that, that allows us for benefits too, of, again, like I said, if you’re ever gonna have an occasion where somebody shows up and accidentally puts someone in the wrong housing unit, it could be real bad stuff happen from that.

So it does that with inside each housing unit. What we wanted to do was in inside every housing unit, there’s a [00:19:00] rec yard attached, an outdoor rec, which is pretty standard. There’s also a classroom at every housing unit. Then we have a video courtroom in every housing unit. So not only can we track you inside that housing unit, when you step into that rec yard, it now sees you in the rec yard.

It now sees you in the classroom. It now sees you in court. So I have all of that data that I can go back and I can either extract it or I can tell the system, hey, go ahead and log in for rec that day. So not only through the building, but in the actual housing unit. We haven’t gone as far we’re still developing to where if I’m planning a certain program in the program room how can I log them for that specific program, whether it be Catholic Church or Christian, whatever’s going on in there. But we do have that flexibility. We got the data that’s the biggest piece to it.

Brian Lee: Very interesting technology and so my initial thought is with the onset that a lot of [00:20:00] agencies are up against across the country with staffing shortages, the challenges of getting people to work in correctional facilities.

There’s a huge demand from communities and organizations to require staff, correctional staff to be more engaging with the incarcerated population and to provide additional services and to be able to detect when they may be in crisis. All of those types of things. And in my own experience, that’s a major challenge.

When they’re also tasked with all the things that you previously talked to, when they’re constantly needing to log folks in from activities. They’re feeding, they’re doing counts and things like that. Have you found in utilizing this technology that there is a better engagement by the staff to that incarcerated population?

Do they now have more time to engage? Although, I know staffing [00:21:00] continues to be an issue, but knowing what your system is capable of now versus what it was before, are you convinced that there’s better service and better engagement between those individuals with that new technology?

Col. Martin: I do. And the inmates have easier access to us now. Back in the old jail I timed an inmate message card, getting to my desk. And the way that message card traveled was the inmate would fill it out, give it to the mailman that came around once a day. The mailman would then go sort it, send it on its various path, and it took five days for that information to get to my desk.

Now all of that is by way of kiosk. By sending emails, the inmates are, can send messages straight to staff and can get alerts, can get medical service. So yeah, I think one, for staff not having to run back and do all the administrative duties that, that we’re now taken care of through digital technology absolutely gives ’em more [00:22:00] time to, to dedicate themselves to what they’re there for safety and security control. I definitely do think that the inmates are benefiting from it 100%.

Brian Lee: Great. And you also mentioned prior to in the older facility you had a problem with suicides or attempted suicides. Have you seen a reduction in that activity as well?

Col. Martin: I’m knocking on wood ’cause I don’t wanna brag too much, but 100%. Yeah, absolutely. We were averaging seven or eight, nine a year committed suicides. We were working through female suicides, which we’d never seen before in the history of Marion County Jail. So with building that place, all of those came into mind. All, anything we put in there, we wanted to make sure ycouldn’t tie off on anything. You couldn’t hang yourself from anything. But not only that, it was just to improve the quality of life. We had to go out and find a little bit of extra money just to be able to paint the walls a different color.

So we hired a firm that interior designed to where it’s not just a correctional green. There are some calmer colors and things [00:23:00] there to and by the color itself to alleviate stress and things like that. We put all of that in play and all that into mind when, when building it.

Brian Lee: Very good. So I suspect many of the, the jurisdictions, the cities and counties that would tune into this podcast are looking for new solutions and they’re maybe, staring down the barrel of a brand new project themselves.

The beginning processes. What advice do you have to those folks in preparing themselves for this process? What advice would you give yourself if you could go back in time?

Col. Martin: Oh, it’s a tough one. The advice that I would give would be make sure you have someone that’s not boots in the ground of not willing to change, not willing to sacrifice some of the older integrations that you have.

Probably the biggest piece, I was also doing my day job. Building a jail that, that was very difficult. And I think it probably deserves, not probably, it definitely [00:24:00] deserves the attention of some full-time staff that’s totally dedicated to that project. Not having to be the colonel during your day job and still trying to build the jail. So that’d probably the biggest piece.

Brian Lee: Oftentimes on these projects we’re always as we initiate them, we’re looking for the experienced individuals that know the systems, that know the processes that have been around for a while. And that is, that is something you would obviously look for to help, right? To build this project, but I’ve also found sometimes finding people that are open-minded thinkers that maybe don’t have as much experience, that don’t know the system as well, they’re the ones that are usually the quickest to question how things are currently being done and that, and they don’t fall into that.

So it’s probably beneficial to have a little bit of a mixture on those teams as well. Would you say?

Col. Martin: Oh, you definitely do. And you need some strong leadership. And rumors would get out from time to time that, that we were gonna [00:25:00] do things a certain way or I’d made a decision to, to do x, y, or z.

And you definitely have to get some staff buy-in. You have to listen to your staff. But if you can’t sell ’em on, on, on the light, then you’re gonna lose, right? That, that’s not gonna be good. So you definitely need some strong leadership. You definitely need some, some trust that the staff need, need to have a little bit of trust in you that you got their best interest at heart.

There were some things that, that we had to do to drag ’em along a little bit from time to time. And I tell you the biggest hurdle. I had more people at my office outside of my door, but with, with sticks and picks and axes when they heard that there was not gonna be one printer in the new jail.

Brian Lee: And did that hold true? There’s no printers in the jail?

Col. Martin: There’s no printer in the jail. There’s one printer. And it was always gonna be there. It sits in our main control room so they can print the roster for an emergency roster once a shift. I even had the sheriff at my [00:26:00] door ’cause he wanted to make sure he at least had a printer.

But when that rumor got out when they started doing tours some of the staff started doing tours in the jail. But you mean there’s no printers? But it took years of development to get ’em beyond of how am I gonna do head count without a printer? I’m glad you asked. Here’s how you’re gonna do head count without a printer. And the first iteration with that of, I don’t know if we’re the only ones in the country that, that are doing it, but when we took our inmate record section completely paperless. That means there’s no one printing a piece of paper.

And we may receive paper but then we’re digitally storing it with our JMS. We have a digital packet for all of the paperwork if there is paper that we receive. But 99% of everything, actually a hundred percent of everything we get from the court is all digital information and it’s all sent to us electronically. So why do we need a printer? We may need to store it somewhere, but we don’t need to print it just to turn around and scan it [00:27:00] back in or stuff it in a folder to get it done. And once we prove that concept of, of inmate records, then we move the intake and that was a whole ‘nother cultural beast to tackle. Because all of the arresting agencies, the 32 arresting agencies, law enforcement agencies that are here in Marion County all came in with a paper handwritten document, an officer’s arrest slip. A lot of problems with that.

You can’t read your hand–or you can’t, they’re putting wrong IC codes in there. They’re not listening to prosecutor updates. It caused a lot of problem for the court. And it took us about two years of development to get the, all of that data that you’re already putting in your arrest report.

You’re just, now we’re gonna create a digital OER and I don’t have to read your handwriting. I get all of that data in, it took me another year. I had to work with other agencies, took me another year to be able to actually deploy it because we had six civilians that worked for our IMP or our city [00:28:00] police who did not ’cause their job was to scan that OAR into their system. Once they got it, once we were done with it, we passed it on to them, we put an ink print on it. Their only job was maintaining that OAR and that system, they ended up destroying the document at the end. So they would scan it in, they would make files, and if somebody needed it for court later that they would have it.

And , finally to be able to actually deploy it, I had to buy that section from the city police. They wanted something from us. They wanted communications from us, which was a hassle. That’s a no brainer, but if you want communications from us I need your ident section.

Those employees now work for me.That was the, we had to go that far. So we had built the interfaces, we had worked with all of our vendors but to actually get that one piece done. The sheriff ultimately ends up having to go over and buy that responsibility. From the [00:29:00] city police bring them over.

Brian Lee: So almost a revolution over no printers. You ultimately got the sheriff a printer, right?

Col. Martin: He has a printer. The sheriff’s got a printer.

Brian Lee: Good man. Good career move. Awesome.

Col. Martin: Now, every time, still to this day, if I actually print something, somebody gives me a bunch of crap for it.

Brian Lee: That’s pretty funny. With the CJC now fully operational what’s next on the horizon for Marion County and what’s next for you? What do you got your sight set on?

Col. Martin: We’re still tweaking and developing what we got. And we’re still building more data exchanges. And probably our biggest success of the whole project. I would have to bring us back to our intake. Now we take on anywhere between a hundred, 150 arrestees a day, depending on the weather out there.

Our old intake and our old system that we were working with over there at the old jail, it took us about 24 to 30 hours to get you through that booking process and get you moved on out of that [00:30:00] environment. Historically it always had a hundred, 120 people sitting in that environment before you were either released or sent over to the jail before we get your initial hearing,

And we built our new intake with 160 chairs out there. Now with everything that we’d done for years before it going into this new building, the way we set our intake up, hardly anyone is handpicking information in to the JMS. Before you had to read this paper document, book him in on your JMS, walk over to the.

Fingerprint machine, put all of the same information into that system, walk over to the mugshot system, put all that same information in. You had errors all over the place just because of everybody hand touching all of these systems. Now the way it’s working, the average person setting into our intake is out in four hours.

Wow. Now, that had taken on its own challenges because we had some people accusing us of [00:31:00] the revolving door of justice.

Brian Lee: Four hours compared to, what was the time before that?

Col. Martin: Easy. 24 hours. But all we did was the way we set up our due intake and then the way the digital information moves and the great thing about the way that environment works, if you get all the way to the last step, and we realize that you use the wrong name or we had something misspelled through all of our vendors. We built interfaces that weren’t one way interfaces. So I send the information on all the various responsible systems, and if at the tail end, the last vendor that gets it, if there’s a change, it goes back and updates all the other information in the other systems automatically.

Brian Lee: Gotcha. That’s pretty neat.

Col. Martin: It is probably one of our biggest successes.

Brian Lee: That is a huge success. I’ve looked at several studies, in that initial 24 hours when it comes to recidivism, every additional hour spent in custody dramatically increases the chance for recidivism.

So I think that’s great. I could see how it, [00:32:00] people have issues. I’ve heard the revolving doors thing as well, but that’s just an efficient system. You should be commended for those improvements. That’s fantastic.

Col. Martin: Your police officers were used to, if they were building a case on somebody, serial burglar and the only thing they had ’em on was a I don’t know, driving while suspended driver’s license, in our old jail, you’re probably gonna be there 24 hours. They got 24 hours to build their case. We had to warn them very early on. That’s not the case. You don’t have 24 hours anymore. Yeah. So it’s impacting everybody in the system. And it’s an adjustment for everybody, so that’s understandable. But what it’s about is being responsible to the people coming in.

Brian Lee: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s very interesting. I could talk to you for hours and hours about this, a lot of the same experiences and whatnot, but I really do want to thank you for coming on and talking to us about this process today. I will definitely be following up with you to pick your brain on some of these other [00:33:00] things. Before we wrap up, is there any parting wisdom or knowledge you’d like to share with the audience on this process?

Col. Martin: It’s a challenging one. I would say take it and bite-size pieces. You will have to involve staff. You will have to consult with them and ultimate, ultimately, it, it’s the right work for a lot of different reasons. So it’s worth the time and effort to get it done right.

Brian Lee: Wonderful. Colonel Martin, I want to thank you again for your time. I want to congratulate you on your project. It was good to see you and I hope to talk to you more in the future. So, thank you everyone for listening to our podcast today. You can find this in other episodes on the standard podcast platforms, apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon, or visit us at CGLCompanies.com/podcast.

If you have suggestions for topics you want to hear covered this season, or interested in being a future guest on the 360 Justice Podcast, email us at podcast@cglcompanies.com.